Azere Wilson says on her website:

“When covering country tunes I’d joke that my love for country music and bluegrass comes from the white side of my family but after my research and further exploration I realized Americana, Country, Bluegrass all stem from Black roots. This music embodies all of me.”

Everybody’s talking about inclusivity, but America has a solidly White foundation. Some folks are feeling daunted by how the definition of “inclusive” seems to expand exponentially daily, as if the definitions people put on themselves are too much to grasp. Isn’t that what Folk has always been? Come as you are. You don’t have to wear a nametag, but if you want one we’ll use it best we can.

Ask around, though: Folk hasn’t always been inclusive. Despite everything Rhiannon Giddens does, a lot of people were unaware of the banjo’s Black history until Cowboy Carter arrived on the scene. Being blind to differences is also being blind to what makes any culture or human unique.

Azere Wilson and I give each other safe space to discuss things that are important to both of us, like being multiracial. Being Black. Being White. Being a parent or grandparent. In one of many very long conversations, we talked about what inclusivity means from the perspective of a Black Roots/Americana/Folk musician.

me: I keep thinking of this talk I heard at FAI by Joe Seamons and Dom Flemons – they explained that to say, “Do you want a seat at the table” is not the right question. The right question is: “Here’s a space. What do you need to make it work for you?”  What I’d like to do is figure out how to make things more inclusive, but I have no ideas because I’m able and white. I don’t even know how to ask the question.

Azere: You just did. “What do you need?”  I think somewhere they just opened a free grocery store: everything is free. You go in and you take what you need. So it could be something like that.

These are the things that people need to have, sound-wise and whatever, for accessibility. We know that these are the pieces of equipment people need in order to be successful.  Make a checklist for musicians – for people you are trying to serve. Then offer it to them and say, “This is what we think you might need; you can look to see where it is that you’re missing check marks for yourself.  We have these supplies over here.” Then it’s more like a “for anybody and everybody,” so inclusive in that way.  Even to go so far as: If you’re hard of hearing, if you’re blind, if you are whatever it is,  then you will need X, Y, and Z equipment. Do the research for that and offer that.

How else can we support? Sometimes there’s no money for a ticket or no lodging. Just like the no food thing. Or no one to watch the kids when you’re a single parent but a musician and want to partake in the conference. Maybe you can get there but have to figure out child care. I don’t know…just thinking of what access people might need in order to be included.

My sound guy for Music My Mother Would Not Like is legally blind. He’s awesome; he’s done the sound a couple other times and we’re going to record together as well. I have to tell him things, cuz my computer isn’t set up like his computer.  My equipment isn’t set up with certain things and sometimes he can’t use some programs that are not set up in a way to where he can access them. Mike has said, “Well, I can’t do that because I can’t see the colors. I don’t know if it’s red or green or whatever and there’s no no indicators on whatever wires…” He can’t finish the setup process. He knows where everything needs to go but he can’t do it because he doesn’t know which wires are  separated by color.

People who can see don’t think about that kind of stuff.  It’s kind of like what you just said about being offered a seat at the table, but too, it’s: Marginalized people are always looked to to answer those questions, right?  Have people do the research and then offer those things. Figure out what we need to make this quality sound. Where would there be some elements that could be lacking for people that are visually impaired?

me: …because that word: “normal”… When all of our faculties work, or when everything that’s set up in the organization was designed around us able-bodied people, seeing people, hearing people, White people…that belongs in the list. Sometimes racism is just who you’d give a pass.

 Azere: Exactly. My friend tells me all the time that I’m always driving so hard because I always have to, as a black woman. Always be the best all the time, and it’s just because it’s just part of us, ingrained in who we are.  We always have to be better than anybody else to prove our worth (Azere is showing me with hand motions where the levels and trajectories are) where other people just come in like this. We have to prove ourselves to even get to that level. Expectations are skewed in one way or the other.

I just keep thinking of the Black Opry. I want to get into the Black Opry, and I’ve put it out there but I haven’t heard anything back yet so I need to reach out again. But have people from the Black Opry been invited to Folk Alliance? If you look to see who’s performing with the black Opry, have they been invited; are they part of Folk Alliance, like Stephanie Johnson? Julia Cannon? Nicky Diamonds, Julie Williams?  If not, why not?

 me: That is absolutely the question. How do you make sure that people you want to be involved are invited and feel welcome?

I’ve had conversations recently with people who wonder what the disconnect is. I think I know what it is, and I don’t know how else to say it other than “it’s too White.”

We (White people) think everything is perfectly fine, because it was set up that way so long ago. We don’t consider that it was set up by people who were intentionally excluding others. People who were left out didn’t just sit there being left out. They did their own thing.

Azere: Preach, sister! It’s like The Sneetches, ya know? That was actually my fav Dr. Seuss, cuz I could relate. I was a non-star-bellied Sneetch, always left out, and in the end they’re all mixed up together and it doesn’t freaking matter. That is the community I’m forever in search of. 

me: I actually don’t know that book. Don’t make fun of me! I know The Butter Battle Book, though.

Azere: Also there’s the other layer of imposter syndrome. I mean, I know my guitar playing is not that great. I’m mediocre at best, but whatever; I’m doing it with passion and I record the truth, blah blah. But are people listening to me because of that, or am I getting this gig because somebody suggested it when I’m the only freaking Black woman who showed up?

Me: A lot of times, White people are afraid of looking stupid, of being wrong. We’re really hard on our own people in that regard. People choose to say nothing because there might be repercussions. But then no progress is made. We need to make mistakes. We can let go of what we’ve always known and see how other people do what they do. If we develop a base of mutual respect, then we might be able to collaborate. This is not about showing people “the right way” – it’s about understanding there is no right way. If a thing works, it’s the right way. 

Azere: Word. And when people do nothing we think they don’t care or they don’t see the problem. One of my teachers once said, “If you’re not part of the solution you are part of the problem.” MLK also wrote of this in his Letter From a Birmingham Jail, speaking on white moderates.

me: You said the important thing: everybody wants to be seen. They want to be believed. I try to look for ways to be helpful instead of just mouthy but hey, if a mouth is what’s needed I’ll do that, too. Everything we have now starts generations ago. There’s so much that ideally we could just rebuild but we can’t.

 Azere: but we can try.

 me: we can try.

 Azere: I come to the (FAR-West) Campfire because I enjoy it. I love seeing the people and hearing their music, being a part of that space. I was just wondering: when you say we should be a community, what does that look like?

 me: I like the way the Campfire feels, and I would like everything to feel safe and welcome like that – the whole world would be great. That’s asking a lot, I guess. I definitely found a safe space there for myself that I wasn’t expecting. I feel brave enough to try new things. We’re supposed to support each other, not because you’re a something but because I like you and I want to support you.

 Azere: I think like inviting people if they want inclusivity – genuinely. Genuinely invite people that they would like to see show up.

We will not overcome someday if we do nothing. Pete Seeger’s song is a call to action: put hands in hands. But if we do something, if we are not afraid. We can try.